Baba
Worry of margiis
~ The below are courtesy of WhatsApp forums ~
[20/06, 1:47 pm] Sonu Kumar:
*141 words are deleted in one Pravachan.*
*In same way every Pravachan of AV 01-02 are distorted.*
*I have new printed AV book edited by Dada Manishananda ji. And I have old 95 edition AV book.*
*I have compared both books.*
*And it is really shocking that all pravachans are distorted. There is not a single pravachan without distortion.*
*Paragraphs of paragraphs of Hindi spoken part are missing in old book.*
*New book is printed that's why I am able to know that Baba has spoken these Hindi part. Otherwise Tiljala had deleted all forever.*
----
Polluting Baba's words is both crime & sin
[20/06, 2:21 pm] Rajiib Debnath:
Namaskar All,
After going through the topic of the Books & translation, and various comments from respected margis, below is what I can understand with my limited knowledge, that there 2 separate questions:
1. Writing of Books from Baba’s Audio.
2. Translation to other language.
It is understood from our experience, that if we really want conclusion, then we have to see things separate, without mixing, where it is possible. I see, above 2 topic can be discuss separately, and we should not intend to mix it.
Writing of Books from Baba’s Audio: I m not sure, why do we need any thinking or even intelligence to solve this. Because it is very much simple, that we have write only what is spoken, AS IT IS, may it be ANY language.
Reasons:
a) It is the rule which all know through out the world, that when you mention, somebody said “…… “, with date & place, you are only supposed to mention what he has said. It does not matter, if what is said is right, wrong, beautiful, x, y, z…. If this simple is not understood by us, then what other complicated thing we can understand & will explain to our non margi brothers, they would look more look more knowledgeable. This rule we apply for anybody in the world, but surprisingly, when it comes for HIM, our beloved Baba, the creator of your intelligence, we think, let us introduce our intelligence, and alter few words, sentence or para….. why….
b) HIS children, we, now & forever, want to know & hear & read, what HE has said, even it is right, wrong, ugly, local language, spoken language etc. It gives us immense pleasure to know what he has said in a LOCAL or SPOKEN language. Some may even get enlightened & samadhi going through those sentences in LOCAL or SPOKEN language.
c) What if HIS versions are not clear enough due to the local or spoken language or any other reasons?
The answer is very simple again, and also a well know way… Pls right a new book on the specific subject or book as per your wish, BUT ON YOUR OWN NAME, and it should be clearly called out that these are your views to give more clarity. The learned & enlightened personalities are very much welcome to educate us with your views so that it help us understand any missed part. We will be grateful to them.
d) Alteration by Baba Himself: As understood, for few occasions, when Baba’s view were requested on specific quotes, HE may have altered HIS own version. Then,
• Whichever were altered by HIS own direction, (as HE is the only one who has the right to alter, no other), should be done. But there are very well know ways how to capture both the versions. It should include both HIS initial/1st version & also HIS corrected/2nd versions, but no other versions AT ALL. Thus HIS 1st / initial version should not be omitted. At the same time, HIS 2nd version will give more clarity.
• When there is no scope for getting HIS 2nd version, it is obvious that, we should go only with the 1st/ initial version.
e) During Baba’s physical presence OR before 1990: I think this is relevant to a extent, but we need to understand what does it actually mean by: During Baba’s physical presence OR before 1990. Does it mean that all that has happened during that time are all correct?
No, we cannot come to such conclusion.
As we have seen in Mahabharata, during the presence of Krishna, many things has happened, which are not all right.
Same as we have seen during Baba’s physical presence, as mentioned in many above comments, It is HIS LILA.
We should learn from HIS teachings, not from what has happened.
There are many things, incidents happened then, which we wish that it should not have happened. We still wish which ever is in our control, we should try to do better. One thing is permanent as HE Himself, that is, we have to continuously improve. Same should be related to Baba’s book. Whichever books has not followed the above basic rules, maybe it is printed before or after 1990, should be corrected now, improve to HIS version AS IT IS, for the books on HIS name.
f) History: We should also preserve all these for our next generations or generations after thousands years, to know what Taraka Brahma has played in His Brindavan. If we alter the original version itself, how will they know what has happened. It will be a great injustice to them. Between His children & Him, we are not to interfere. It is they, who has to decide what they have understood from what He said said, nobody else.
Translation to other language: If a book, note etc has to be written in any language on Baba’s name, then
a) First, we have to see if there is any Baba’s audio or 1st version on that language, on that topic is available or not.
Second, we have to see, if there is any 2nd version or correction by Baba himself on the same language.
If both are there, then both should be published. If only 1st version is there, then only 1st version.
b) If Baba’s original version/audio is not there, then only we should translate from the 1st book which is purely based on Baba’s version, as mentioned in earlier topic. The 1st book which is purely based on Baba’s version can be in any language in which Baba has given His discourses.
c) If the book to be translated to a foreign language, then, we should translate from
• 1st , we have see if a English book is available with direct Baba’s version.
• If not, then from a book of Indian regional language with direct Baba’s version.
• If it is very difficult, then take the help from a English book which is translated from a book of Indian regional language with direct Baba’s version.
----
Good people cannot fathom devious mind
[20/06, 5:38 pm] Milan Sarkar Dada:So it is confirmed that the it’s not an intentional towards particularly Hindi book as it’s not available in other languages too. I am sure Bengali book won’t have that chapter well (subjected to confirmation).
The margi rights have been taken away knowingly that’s confirmed from all the languages printed till date and only one department can not be blamed for that. It was purely intentional by so then administration (if any). Margis must fight for it.Now next comes about translation. It never been perfect anywhere. Two persons will translate differently for the same content as per his or her understanding.
Another point coming which is claimed as “Bangaliwad” regarding publication department ... that’s a political issue. I don’t have enough knowledge commenting on that. All the sides think differently and we have already divided and have multiple administration for very reason of “geo sentiment” .. we are not united and it’s true. So every party thinks they are *only* right others are wrong.The best way to avoid this confusion of publication is to follow the same process which was followed before 1990 and we should not deviate from that process. Once we try to build our own intellectuals then certainly mistakes will happen and not 100% people will agree to that. Somebody somewhere will be continuing debating.
Moreover if that chapter or words are missed or knowingly degraded or manipulated or distorted, what might be the intention for it ? Are they trying to strive us from Baba’s divinity ? None can do that. As I don’t get any answer personally the reason to remove Divine words intentionally so I don’t agree to anything but yes I will read all versions if available. Both will be equally important for me. None will be called as “pure” or “impure” from my side as I am not that perfect to judge it.
This is the last post by me in this topic
----
From AM books para after para deleted
[20/06, 7:40 pm] Sumita' Shrii: *The main issue is that what Baba is giving pravachan and it is recorded in audio should be printed in book. To understand this simple issue doesn't need doctorate degree. It just needs impartiality.*
*Because of audio recording no one can be able to do distortion and His shastra will be flawless.**So the main issue is not Bangla Hindi English book. Issue is that they deleted huge part of Baba pravachan from book and printed distorted version. We won't get those pravachan in any language book. Because, the original transcription was distorted.*
----
Three main reasons for their dirty deeds
[20/06, 9:13 pm] Devesh Kumar: Since 1993/ 1994, we have been writing emails and circulating leaflets about distortions in BABA discourses. Margis are sleeping in deep slumber....... A few got up a few years before, a few are getting up now....
[20/06, 9:17 pm] Devesh Kumar: Please send your postal address, I will send the book through parcel
[20/06, 9:22 pm] Devesh Kumar: There are three main reasons of distortion of BABA discourses - 1) Double translation - from Hindi to Bangla and again Bangla to Hindi 2) carelessness in transcription of recorded Audio. 3) Intentionally removed sentences, paragraphs from BABA discourses - Margi rights paragraph was intentionally removed/ deleted. Still this important paragraph is deleted .......
[20/06, 9:22 pm] Devesh Kumar:... Therefore, due to " Double translation ", most of Hindi and English discourses got distorted extensively. If you will listen BABA'S Audio and check with printed Hindi & English discourses, you will find completely distorted discourses....... I have hundreds points to write here.... but...
~ The above are courtesy of WhatsApp forums ~
* * *
The below sections are entirely different topics, unrelated to the above material.
They stand on their own as points of interest.
* * *
== Section 2: Important Teaching ==
Immigration: nip problem in the bud
Prout philosophy states, "Economic decentralization means production for consumption, not production for profit. Economic decentralization is not possible under capitalism, because capitalist production always tries to maximize profit. Capitalists invariably produce at the lowest costs and sell at the highest profits. They prefer centralized production, which leads to regional economic disparity and imbalances in the distribution of the population. In the decentralized economy of PROUT on the other hand, production is for consumption, and the minimum requirements of life will be guaranteed to all. All regions will get ample scope to develop their economic potentiality, so the problems of a floating population or overcrowding in urban centres will not be allowed to arise." (1)
Reference
1. Prout in a Nutshell - 21, Economic Democracy
== Section 3: Links ==
Recent postingsOther topics of interest
